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DavidAshton
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 18:11:44
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Ok so I'm asking you guys how long you'd think it'd take for the following jobs on a Norman 20, Ive had the work done and the bill is shocking on hours, so being what you guys think before I go back to them and complain.
The drive coupling was badly damaged and needed replacing - on the invoice they list it as replacing with new coupling kit (And if you guys know how much the coupling kit is too?
Also - to replace a worn Dog Clutch and fork, then flush out old emulsified gear oil.
Theres a few other bits they did but i'd be interested to see how many hours you guys would estimate on the above - and how much a drive coupling kit is?
Thanks in advance - I think they re taking the pi$$ so want opinions!
David |
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df
United Kingdom
5994 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 18:23:05
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What is the setup? Sounds like maybe inboard with enfield, how is the access? How siezed were grub screws?
Youd be surprised how many hours can rack up.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
 Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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DavidAshton
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 18:51:24
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Sorry - its an inboard Enfield 130
They had to take the boat out of the water - and the engine out to work on it, remove drive, and swivel hub, repair threads on swivel hub and refit with new coupling kit, relaunch, and river test.
Just after realistic hours? ball park? |
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stratford4528
United Kingdom
414 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 19:05:31
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| That's a lot of hrs I have done one and I am a good engineer with all the tools. Most of the bolts will be seized. |
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DavidAshton
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 19:08:38
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Roughly how many? appreciate its just a guess but what? 2 days at 8hrs a day..? 5 days? 10 days?
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df
United Kingdom
5994 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 02:00:19
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That is a big job, I've done similar myself and couldnt count the hours, how much did they charge you?
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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DavidAshton
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 09:12:47
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| Only the job sheet it says 38hrs, and the hourly rate is shocking |
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Knighty
United Kingdom
654 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 10:27:45
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Shame they didn't give you an estimate or an idea of costs as work was progressing as outdrive repairs can be very expensive especially at marina prices.
Also see you had a recent service with prior issues selecting gear shame they didn't advise you on possible future repairs. Also the recent work says flush out emulsified oil, wasn't the oil changed on the service you had done costing £500 ?
Pity you didn't join here before buying as I previously owned a 20 and would have advised going for an outboard motor boat. Nothing wrong with inboards, I have one now but shaft drive but on a 20 a small 10-15hp is fine on inland rivers. |
Edited by - Knighty on 13 Nov 2016 10:30:27 |
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cliveshep
Thailand
1324 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 11:53:03
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I'm guessing the labour bill alone is around £850, but consider that if you book a yard lift with a crane and factoring in the insurance you could be looking at £250 - £300 for that alone - in and out. Add the repair time, removing an engine involves two men plus a crane and driver, and putting it back again, stripping a manky old Enfield - that has to be getting on for 40 years old - with stainless bolts inevitable seized in the aluminium castings needing very careful work to get them out - I'd say something around £850 and up for labour would be about right.
Removing a stern-drive, stripping out on the bench, re-building lower end etc and ensuring it won't fill up with water when the boat is re-floated is a job requiring skill and care or the whole excercise would be a waste of time and you would not be happy.
Boats are extremely labour intensive, modern tools, materials and techniques have hardly changed that, so it follows that the less you let a yard do the better off you'd be.
Finally living the dream!
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Edited by - cliveshep on 13 Nov 2016 11:54:45 |
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df
United Kingdom
5994 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2016 : 15:38:04
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Which drive coupling was it that needed replacing? Was it a flexible coupling between engine and outdrive or the splined shaft that bolts to the engine flywheel? I know both are pretty pricey as I did price them up once (can't remember figures)and I think the only splined shaft that goes on without machineing work is for perkins engine, I know the dog clutch isn't cheap too, I hope they replaced both sliding dog and beveled gear as if one is slipping over the other part will be worn out too, once the edges get rounded over they push themselves out of mesh under power.
What engine is it you have?
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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philihun
United Kingdom
283 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2016 : 19:49:41
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I'm certainly not going to cross swords with the lads that know in boards inside out, but why spend about 2k repairing a tired old set up from the dark ages. For that money you could get a 15 -20 hp Honda outboard still with some guarantee on it for about 1.5k. That leaves £500 for the tank and fuel line and fitting on the transom etc. They weigh about 56 kg which means you can take them home if they need fixing, which is very rare on modern 4 strokes, (Honda Yamaha Mercury). Jap not Chinese. I carry 10 gallons which gives me 120 miles and a bit in reserve. Google the nearest Garage on your travels and you will never run out of fuel. Mines a Honda 15 1998 and it does the ouze and trent when most of the the Coffins aren't able to stem a 6 knot tide. I am talking Normans Vikings etc not bigger craft where diesel is a must.
pr hunt |
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Knighty
United Kingdom
654 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2016 : 12:56:57
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| It's a Ford 4 pot, maybe a 105e engine David mentioned. |
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trevork
3949 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2016 : 13:39:12
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| Plenty of much older BMC's still happily chugging away. Basic diesels are mostly bullet proof and will live on! |
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df
United Kingdom
5994 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2016 : 15:36:59
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Going from scratch I would completely agree with the outboard approach but if you already have an inboard/outdrive setup there is the added costs of filling the outdrive hole and building an outboard well and then having to re-fit the cockpit to suit the new setup, as David had someone else do the work to fix his problems I'm guessing he would have done the same to get an outboard fitted, that is even more hours work on top of the cost of the engine.
Boating is so much cheaper if you can do the work yourself.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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IanM
United Kingdom
2238 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2016 : 17:54:51
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Unless it's a very special Norman to convert between inboard and outboard it will almost always be cheaper to sell the boat and buy another one. Sad but true.
And Trevor, you'll be amused to know that we did manage to kill a BMC 1.5D. Some muppet had bodged the coupling between flywheel and gearbox which managed to vibrate itself apart halfway through Braunston tunnel. Lots of chunky metal bits bouncing around in there. Everything was chipped, bent or dented and the crankshaft was not turning properly, assumed bent. The engine guy just kept looking at me and shaking his head. Some of the home-made "spacers" looked suspiciously like they just taken a random bit of steel bar and drilled a shonky, not-quite-central hole in it. My advice would be never break down in a tunnel...
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trevork
3949 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2016 : 00:22:42
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Well, if you had to break down and have an engine failure then that is the most spectacular way to do it Ian! Why bore the world with a straightforward engine seize up?? Make a song and dance of it and throw a few lumps of iron around!
Tumultuous applause should follow!
Just got back from the pub by the way! |
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How long would this take?
