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DavidAshton
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Aug 2016 : 16:25:37
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Hi everyone - bought a Norman 20 a few weeks ago, loving it but have questions that i've not been able to find the answers for on the net!
SO it has an old Ford 4 cylinder inboard engine - but i can't find any info about it - how do I find out the model and research it a bit? its green! and looks mega old, but probably very simple to service - were these fitted as standard?
What oil is suitable for the engine? is 2 stroke ok to use?
When you put the boat into gear it makes a CRUNCH noise - I'm told to not do it slowly but thats not the point? do the cables need replacing? or would a service sort that out?
One of the Norman logos is missing from the side of the boat - can these be bought? can't find them anywhere?
How easy would it be to fit a petrol gauge?
is there a website where you can get Norman 20 specific accessories or parts?
should I want to put a seat adjacent to the drivers seat so two people can sit and face the front - how easy is that to do are there companies that specialise? or not worth the cost?
Any help would be most appreciated!
David |
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cliveshep
Thailand
1324 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2016 : 00:48:45
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There should be an engine serial number stamped onto the cylinder block on it osmewhere, possible on a bit of the lbock outside the head or possibly on the side by the core plugs from memory.
A favourite angine of the time was the Ford 1600cc crossflow which was a lovely engine actually. Usually mated to an Enfield 130 outdrive. You might have an older 105E too but the crossflow is the more likely - carb on one side, exhaust on the other. Nothing engine wise on a Norman was ever standard - Norman dod not offer engines, you bough a completed outboard boat and found an engine for it, or you bought various stages of hull and superstructure and finished it off yourself.
Petrol tanks were most often bespoke, especially on Norman 20's as there wasn't much room to fit them. I stuck one under the helm seat box and flushed the step in.
You do not use 2-stroke oil on a Ford - use SAE 20w30 or 40. Somewhere on the engine is likely to be a brass hand pump to pump the oil out at service.
Spares used to be available from Lancing Marine Services, but you could obtain non-marinising parts from pretty much anywhere. Lancing Marine will do spare parts for the Jabsco water pump for example, or you could go to ASAP Supplies, Both are on the web.
The engine revs should be a tickover so the boat doesn't jerk violently when you go into gear, Enfields have dog-clutches so you just bang it into gear - the clunk is normal. You cannot remove it by new cables or service.
Most of us used a dipstick down the filler to check fuel levels, you really don't want to go drilling hoiles into a petrol tank - one spark and someone else claims on your life insurance.
Helm seat to starboard - not hard - beef up the side panel by gluing a thicker piece of plywood behind it and get the type of seat that has a hinge and attach that to the side. Beef up the bunk top underneath so the removable leg can sit on it.
Finally living the dream!
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Knighty
United Kingdom
654 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2016 : 09:27:34
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| Does it say Watermota on the manifold ? Marinised Ford engines were/are used a lot on Freeman boats so might be worth visiting their forum as well for engine related stuff. Def not 2 stroke oil though, on my 1100 Crossflow I use Comma Classic 20-50 designed for older engines, about £20 for 5 ltrs from eBay. |
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DavidAshton
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2016 : 12:26:29
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Awesome thanks for the info
Had a closer look at the engine, big stamp on the side that says
BOWMAN, FM160
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stratford4528
United Kingdom
414 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2016 : 14:31:17
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| Bowman is probably the make of the manifold which is the heat exchanger for cooling the engine.Try and put a photo up of the engine. |
Edited by - stratford4528 on 21 Aug 2016 14:33:02 |
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df
United Kingdom
5994 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2016 : 15:20:45
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That manifold fits a ford xflow so either 1100/1300/1600cc, hopefully the later of the three.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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DavidAshton
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
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cliveshep
Thailand
1324 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2016 : 11:05:34
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Like Dave told you - it's a Bowman heat exchanger manifold for one of the 3 crossflow Ford engines. If you have the 1600cc - lucky man, but the heat exchanger is an after-market part for the marinising industry creating Ford Marine engines, that industry also sold Jabsco sea-water pumps and brackets and pulleys and longer fan belts, brass oil-pumps connected to the sump plug orifice, and modified fuel lines to comply with the then TC regs (Thames Conservancy, now TWA) as no-one else had any boat specification regs to speak of in those days.
Lancing Marine still do a full range of engine marinising parts for those older engines I believe. They were/are great marine engine lumps when marinised.
You still need to find the engine model number on the block to identify it.
How about posting some pictures of the boat including helm, engine/cockpit area, and also stern - does it have trim-tabs? Curious if it was one of mine!
Finally living the dream!
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df
United Kingdom
5994 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2016 : 12:24:24
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The numbers cast into the block give most things away as some blocks were stronger than others, if memory serves me well all 3 capacity engines had the same bore size but different strokes, the 1300 & 1100 used the same block with bigger throw crank and shorter rods in the 1300, you could build a high compression 1300 by using the 1100 pistons, the 1600 had a taller block and could be bored to 1700 using the same head but if you used flat top pistons and a head with combustion chamber in you could go to 1760 quite easily, bang on a set of well jetted 40 or 45 dcoe's and you have a flying machine.
Guess who used to be a boy racer with old escorts......
quote:
Early blocks bore the casting marks 681F and capacities you’ll find are, 940, 1098, 1298 and 1599. You’ll find a X/Flow fitted to Mk1/2 Escorts, Mk2/3 Cortinas, Mk1/2 Capris plus late Transits. Most cars came with a single choke Ford IV carb although the 1.3 and 1.6 GT models had a 32/36 DGV Weber twin choke.
1970 saw the big change to the thicker-walled 711M block with square mains caps, large diameter followers, wider cam lobes and modified crank seal. Also, the head was now completely flat.
There are two main capacities of 711M, determined by block height - the 1600 is 7/16" taller and you can see the difference between it and the 1300 by the space between the water pump and head. Also, the 1300 has 711M 6015 AA cast in the side whereas the 1600 ends in BA.
Appolgies for the anal reply but I'm at work watching an engine on a testbed and I'm bored.....
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
Edited by - df on 24 Aug 2016 12:32:07 |
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DavidAshton
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2016 : 18:29:22
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It's an Enfield 130 apparently?
When you get a boat, don't you get the history like with a car? Is that not the done thing? Like bills etc |
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df
United Kingdom
5994 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2016 : 19:04:31
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Enfield 130 is the outdrive not the engine, most inboard normans used the enfields although some of them are badged as perkins as it was perkins that originally developed and made the enfield outdrive as a means to be able to sell their engines as a marine package.
Spare parts are still available for them through Bob Knowles who now has the licence for the parts, chertsey meads marine and plancraft both act as agents for enfield, if you are needing lots of bits you can blag a trade discount from chertsey meads (I did).
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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DavidAshton
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2016 : 17:19:33
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I have another question!
I was putting the canopy back up today after a trip on the boat, and part of the metal on it snapped, it's not the part that's on the vainly though it's the part that's attached to the boat, that the canopy frame connects to, just old wear and tear in the metal.
Question is where do I get a replacement?
Also - question 2, should I want to buy a cover for the winter, can anions point me in the right direction? Recommendations or even rough prices? |
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philihun
United Kingdom
283 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2016 : 17:29:25
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ref the passengers seat,go on onto e bay uk and enter fold up boat seat. They are on now for about £60 including delivery.
pr hunt |
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cliveshep
Thailand
1324 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2016 : 18:04:24
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You can buy the bits for the hood on ebay too. Just type in hood/canopy fittings in the search box.
Finally living the dream!
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KK
United Kingdom
25 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2016 : 11:55:24
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| Cover for the whole boat or just the cockpit as an alternative to the canopy? If the latter, my husband bought some PVC material and fasteners, and made one for when we tow and when it's "moored" in the garden. Works very well. Worth a try? |
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cliveshep
Thailand
1324 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2016 : 01:16:09
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I suggest you make a hood for cruising, but take the hood off in winter if you winter on your drive, lay a long pole from screen to transom, and ta\rp the whole boat over it, the pole will make the tarp "tent" and allow air to circulate over winter. Leave all your cushions and bedding ashore, bedding can go in black bags and you can stick the lot in the loft or garage until the spring.
I did that with my Ocean 30 on it's mooring, one massive tarpaulin from one end to the other, not tied down but I saved all those plastic 5 litre milk bottles full of river water and tied those on all round. They acted like springs when the winds blew and saved the tarpaulin ripping at the eyelets. All the bedding and pillows for that (it was a 6 berth boat)lived over winter in plastic bin-bags on board, leaving the windows open allowed air to blow the length of the boat and kept it ventilated.
Finally living the dream!
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New Norman 20 owner with questions!
