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m4mike
United Kingdom
63 Posts |
 Posted - 15 May 2012 : 10:32:33
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Morning everyone. On my recently bought 1979 Norman 23, on looking under the seats at the front V of the boat, I noticed that someone before has put in 3 full bags of sand, I guess this most be for stability at the front, is it necessary to have them as they obviously take up storage space?
I have also noticed there is a small bit of water in them, do they get condensation?
I have a Honda 100 10hp outboard and am looking at fitting a rudder on for better steering, anyone know how I go about this?
Thanks
Mike |
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newcommer
United Kingdom
63 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 11:29:50
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Hi mike
I have a 23/24ft Norman I have not decided which it is yet. I have ballast in the bow the previous owner replaced a 30hp 2stroke with a 15hp 4stroke and Fitted rudder to the outboard. I have tried the boat with and without the rudder. The rudder improves the low speed steerage but increase the steering effort at higher speed. Last year I fitted an auxiliary engine this changed forced the stern down to compensate I increased the ballast in the bow. This has not been tested yet as the boat is still out of the water due the high water and current (Thames) hopefully back in the water soon see previous posts about wandering steering
I hope this helps Pete
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m4mike
United Kingdom
63 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 11:49:54
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Hi Pete, thanks for your reply, I managed to launch the boat on the Thames near Thames Ditton Surrey, but haven't been able to use it yet because of the red boards at the locks, hoping to take it to the mooring this weekend (at a scout mooring at the moment)
Is the boat that bad if I took all the bags of sand out?
Cheers |
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Sonny
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 13:05:18
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I don't know if this is of use but we bought a 23 from Jones boatyard in St Ives in January and there is no added ballast in the boat at all.
when I picked it up it only had a 4hp 4stroke outboard but we have since fitted 9hp tohatsu 2 stroke with no rudder and the boat runs very straight compared to the Norman 20 we had before.
all I can suggest is to remove the ballast an see how it handles.
as far as damp in the bags is concerned if there is water in the front compartment then you may have a leak otherwise if it is just inside the bags it is probably condensation |
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newcommer
United Kingdom
63 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 13:11:52
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Hi mike
. Give it a try as I have about 100 kg of engine hanging on the stern.
Pete
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pete-preston
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 14:47:19
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Hi Mike
We have a N23 for over 4 years now with a 15 hp Honda on the back,and it used wander about like a drunken sailor.Added about 40/50 lbs of small stones into the bow (used stones as they do not absorb water like sand does so, if you get water up in the bow they are easy to remove) and fitted an"ADD ON " rudder to the outboard leg and now she tracks straight and true (for a Norman that is). 
Hope this helps.
Pete & Maggie (Kismet) |
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Jimbo
United Kingdom
585 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 16:11:37
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| During the 4 years that I had my Norman 23, I found that by adding 100kgs of pebbles in 20 kg bags really improved the straight line steering. Pebbles are better than sand as they do not absorb water and so stops condensation and that musty smell. The easy way to decide how much ballast you need is to take the boat out with only two adults in and standing in the stern. See how she steers. Then get one person to get right up in the bows and see how she steers again. So by adding approx twice that persons weight tells you how much ballast you need.Only approximate but you can tell the difference. Add on rudders can help when steering in a straight line but make the steering heavy at low speeds. Another good tip I found was to mount the outboard engine up to 4 inches or so to the right of the boats cenre line. This helps to counteract the effect of the prop trying to "walk" to the left. Try it, it worked for me. |
Edited by - Jimbo on 15 May 2012 16:12:54 |
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m4mike
United Kingdom
63 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 18:20:27
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Thanks everyone for the tips and advice, if lucky enough to actually use the boat over the weekend, I will try it with and without the sand, and by moving the engine over a bit, is that to the right as your're in the boat looking at it?
Someone is selling a add on rudder on ebay for just under £40 with p+p, see link
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160288247994?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Thanks
Mike |
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cliveshep
Thailand
1324 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 13:19:08
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If your prop turns clockwise viewed from behind the boat then the part of the prop deepest in the water exerts a sideways force as it rotates and on a clockwise rotation will push the stern to starboard.
Obviously, if the prop turns the other way the stern goes off to port.
It is called "prop-walk" or "paddle effect" and is due to the increase in density of the water which is slightly more at the bottom of the prop than at the top.
You can use this to your advantage in turning around or coming alongside assuming your engine/prop are big enough to exert enough force.
The cost of boating is insignificant compared to costs of a young wife and two teenage kids! |
Edited by - cliveshep on 16 May 2012 13:19:42 |
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Jimbo
United Kingdom
585 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 16:55:18
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| Hi there, I meant moving the engine to the right when outside of the boat and looking at the engine and transom. Remember Newtons 1st law of motion-- To every action there is an oposite reaction. Meaning that the resistance by the water to a turning prop will try to push the prop/boat in the oposite direction. This effect is very marked when dealing with large diameter propellers. All good fun eh? |
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carpetbloke
United Kingdom
194 Posts |
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m4mike
United Kingdom
63 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 20:53:33
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Thanks everyone, will see what happens over the weekend.
Cheers
Mike |
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newcommer
United Kingdom
63 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2012 : 16:31:53
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Hi
Boat back in water trip along Thames extra ballast did the trick stable running true .Vast improvement Great afternoon out hope this will last for the rest of the season. Outboard thefts are rising in the oxford area . Police not interested please lock outboard and keep a keen eye out when on river and moorings. Peter
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Topic |
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Bags of sand in V and fitting a rudder
