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dnme
Ireland
110 Posts |
 Posted - 04 May 2011 : 20:26:09
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Dear all,
My Norman 17 restoration continues. After making up very accurate drape forming moulds for making new front windows, my perspex forming attempts are producing very poor results.
So I am wondering, does anyone have a set of windows? or has anyone made up a set and can you tell me how you did it? Here's a picture of the front of the boat. You can see the window profiles.
Many thanks |
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cliveshep
Thailand
1324 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2011 : 20:39:31
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I made a curved speed-boat screen many years ago, i.e. 1966 when I built my 2nd boat. Like your windows only the ends had a serious curve, I used 1/8" perspex, heated it in my mum's oven until it became pliable and wrapped it over mutton cloth and bent it round a mould and clamped it until it cooled. Then I heated the other end and did the same.
After I had it curved there was some very careful marking and cutting to shape.It screwed at the bottom to a curved frame but the top was unsupported in my case apart from a bit of car body trim pressed on to mask the raw edge but it held it's curve.
Why not try it with a bit of Homebase acrylic and see how you get on. THe thinner the easier, if you are trying to bend 6mm good luck chum! I'd go with 4mm max.
The cost of boating is insignificant compared to costs of a young wife and two teenage kids! |
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Ricky
100 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2011 : 20:50:04
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Hi
Have you tried getting quotes from perspex fabricators? It may not be so dear, I googled perspex fabricators, thers a few in UK, heres one for starters: http://www.xgplastics.com/
See the perfect sphere they created at foot of this page, clearly they can fabricate: http://www.xgplastics.com/plexiglas-fabrications.htm
(When contacting them, or if you do, offer to post links to their sites on forums like these to spread 'the word', may get you a discount, you never know!
Another http://www.inplas.co.uk/index.html
But hey, you've done more than most would even try on that boat of yours..and window molds, so theres no failure there, just not the results you badly wanted.
Rick |
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sm0129
33 Posts |
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dnme
Ireland
110 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2011 : 21:41:48
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I am in Ireland folks. I have been to a fabricator and the price was prohibitive. Also, I don't think any fabricator whether in the UK or Ireland can do anything for me without moulds. Now I know I have made my own moulds but they are heavy and reasonably delicate I'd say so they cannot be shipped anywhere. Here's one of the moulds I made
The problem with these windows is that the curves are compounded. There's a curve across the width, then a compound curve as the wraparound. So no matter which way I try to form them, the edges will buckle and the perspex will not sit fully on the mould. I have tried many different time and temperature settings in the oven and even tried weights clipped onto the perspex.
Here's an oven I tried, it was lined with insulating fibreglass and foil. I had a probe thermometer giving me accurate temp readings and tried the gun in three different positions.
So you can see, I have gone to considerable lengths and the results have been awful. How am I going to get windows into this boat? What would you do? |
Edited by - dnme on 04 May 2011 21:43:11 |
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Deano
United Kingdom
1843 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2011 : 22:17:49
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Just an idea.....
Have you considered 3 separate sheets for each window? With some kind of joining strip between each section. This would "flatten" out the curves and be simpler to fabricate.
A large piece for the front, a triangle for the side and a triangle to fill in between.
It would not look as pleasing as the original, but hey, it would be a window.
Dean - Boating on the Great Ouse.
Freeman 30 "Silver Gem"
See the photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/54758027@N00/ |
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dnme
Ireland
110 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2011 : 22:27:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Deano
Just an idea.....
Have you considered 3 separate sheets for each window? With some kind of joining strip between each section. This would "flatten" out the curves and be simpler to fabricate.
A large piece for the front, a triangle for the side and a triangle to fill in between.
It would not look as pleasing as the original, but hey, it would be a window.
Gosh I don't think so. I am considering glassing in the side wrap-arounds thus leaving me with a simpler rectangular window aperture. But this is a redical step that will take from the Norman identity of the boat. |
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Ricky
100 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2011 : 22:57:26
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DNME, Hi, I was actually thinking along with Deano, with a quarter light type split screen at the curve...But can appreciate its not the original look/design you want.
but from the link given by sm0129 above, it would seem that guy clearly understands the game and you never know... he 'may' already have the templates for your type of craft! He does say he has..'others'. Worth asking at least eh? Quick call or email!
Courier cant be so expensive or can it? Or maybe he can offer advice on 'how' you can do it!
Rick
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Edited by - Ricky on 04 May 2011 22:58:06 |
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stratford4528
United Kingdom
414 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2011 : 22:05:49
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| Just a thought Vacume form it. possibly how the originals were made |
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dnme
Ireland
110 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2011 : 23:06:04
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Ive emailed http://www.littleportboathaven.co.uk/boat%20windscreens.htm
no reply.
I have no idea what people mean by vacuum forming. Wonder how Im supposed to do that in my back garden. There's another user on here "JAYB" that I have been emailing for info on his windows. No reply yet.
I am lost with these windows, they need to be dome right and fit right as they are font facing and need a good seal. I'm lost. |
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stratford4528
United Kingdom
414 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2011 : 22:21:12
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| I have had a word with my son in law who works in a factory making vacume forming machines. He asked what is the overhaul size of your window and could you make an accurate mould. he could then make them for you with a clear plastic. |
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dnme
Ireland
110 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2011 : 22:56:48
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quote:
Originally posted by stratford4528
I have had a word with my son in law who works in a factory making vacume forming machines. He asked what is the overhaul size of your window and could you make an accurate mould. he could then make them for you with a clear plastic.
Hi stratford
That is very kind of you. I have two moulds made but they are made from concrete and filler. They are very heave and whilst robust enough I dont think they would survive a journey from Ireland. Also they would be accurate enough for drape forming but I dont know about vacuum forming.
Sincere thanks |
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stratford4528
United Kingdom
414 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2011 : 23:22:21
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| Could you make a fibreglass mould from them. The mould would have to be perfect because when vacume forming it would follow any blemishes. |
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dnme
Ireland
110 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2011 : 23:49:12
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| I dont think so. they'd be fine for draping but not vacuum. |
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cliveshep
Thailand
1324 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2011 : 15:40:42
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Ok, another idea and one well within your capabilities.
Not one you might approve of but it will give you an answer.
Why not abandon the front of your cabin and cut it away?
Fit a mould and laying-up in grp (polyester resin mate, not blasted epoxy!) to convert the front section to a sloping "V" and take out the wrap-around moulding section altogether to give flattish windows that you CAN cut and fit without any need for vacuum moulding. Vacuum moulding might well be original but you are wasting your time and money trying to re-create the ovens etc required to do it and for a one-off a company will charge you many times the value of your boat.
That way, and within a few easy days work, you'll be in a position to fit windows. I accept that if you are a purist it will no longer look like a Callumcraft or early Norman 17 but at least you can move on.
Alternatively, re-mould the front and try and lose the wrap-around although that will mean much smaller windows.
You'll drive yourself crazy if you carry on like this and at least your boat will progress. Why do you think builders and designers abandoned the wrap-around in the first place? You can still introduce curves if you want to maintain the character, but only between roof/front and sides/front.
Hell, I'm still learning, I've only been re-building boats for 40 years - give me time!
The cost of boating is insignificant compared to costs of a young wife and two teenage kids! |
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dnme
Ireland
110 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2011 : 18:23:13
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| well I'm strongly considering glassing in the sides (wraparounds). I'm an Epoxy man. I already have an Epoxy kit here and will stick to it. |
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Norman 17 Front wraparound windows
