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 Well My Norman has ...............?
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Piers

United Kingdom
32 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2021 :  14:12:32  Show Profile Send Piers a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Hello all.

I’ve come into possession of a boat, and I’ve had it identified as a Norman by the very knowledgeable people at the Norfolk Broads Network forum. However, there were conflicting opinions as to the exact model. Suggestions include an 18, a 20, an 18.5 MK III, or a Conquest with the back missing.

I’ve looked long and hard at many pictures of Normans now, and I think the length is more towards 18.5 or 20. However, there’s no porthole on my boat. Apparently an 18.5 MK III had no porthole, but I’ve yet to find a photo of this. And furthermore, as far as I can see, the usual Norman cockpit side is a straight diagonal downwards; however, my boat has a stepped side to it that I’ve not seen on any other Norman boat in any photo, anywhere. See picture for this.

I’d be very grateful indeed for any light anyone’s able to shed on this. Additionally, is there any way these vessels are definitively identified? Hidden numbering, etc?

Thank you.

See the original identification here: https://forum.norfolkbroadsnetwork.com/topic/22329-boat-identification/?tab=comments#comment-359865

df

United Kingdom
5984 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2021 :  15:20:23  Show Profile  Visit df's Homepage Send df a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Piers, is there anything written on the inside of the bows? A lot of Norman's had some numbers written with a marker pen on the grp that give length,month, year,build number but not guaranteed in that order, usually under a vinyl covering.
Welcome to the nut house, I'm smoggy from nbn.

NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk
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Piers

United Kingdom
32 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2021 :  15:47:16  Show Profile Send Piers a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by df

Hi Piers, is there anything written on the inside of the bows? A lot of Norman's had some numbers written with a marker pen on the grp that give length,month, year,build number but not guaranteed in that order, usually under a vinyl covering.
Welcome to the nut house, I'm smoggy from nbn.

NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk



Hi Smoggy! Yes, if I recognise the name correctly, I believe you helped to identify the boat in the first place. I’ve not noticed any handwritten notes of the type you suggest, but I’ll have another look as I was certainly searching for an official-looking plate of some sort, and may well have missed something. Thanks again for your help.
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df

United Kingdom
5984 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2021 :  05:17:20  Show Profile  Visit df's Homepage Send df a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A bow to stern measurement would help to pin it down to a model Piers.
It certainly screams Norman just doesn't quite match any of the piccies in the brochures available.
That damage tot he downturn on the cockpit side is what made me think it may be a modified 20' conquest, I've hacked an aft cabin off a Norman myself.
Fred or Clive will probably be along soon with a better idea.

NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk
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Piers

United Kingdom
32 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2021 :  10:39:56  Show Profile Send Piers a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by df

A bow to stern measurement would help to pin it down to a model Piers.
It certainly screams Norman just doesn't quite match any of the piccies in the brochures available.
That damage tot he downturn on the cockpit side is what made me think it may be a modified 20' conquest, I've hacked an aft cabin off a Norman myself.
Fred or Clive will probably be along soon with a better idea.

NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk



Interestingly, I've been having a look at more boat pictures with what you suggest in mind, Smoggy. That stepped section where the damage is looked totally unique to me, until I started imagining what a slice under the rear windows of a Norman Conquest would look like. The attached photo is the result, and you can see the resulting line is very similar to the shape of my boat. Also, the top of a Conquest has a pronounced rise where the driver windscreen sits. Other Norman models appear not to have this rise - but it's there on my vessel. So I think you must be right.

My questions then would be: for what reason would you remove the rear section? Is it aesthetic or practical, or both? And also: in every case is it a chop, or are they removable in some cases? Aside from the damage you mention the rest of the boat looks pretty scot-free in that area, though I've yet to check properly.

Next job is to find the tape measure.

Thanks!


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df

United Kingdom
5984 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2021 :  11:18:31  Show Profile  Visit df's Homepage Send df a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Usually a hack and slash job, have a look at whay I did to my old 25 here.
I ended up with a pretty large cockpit, originally bought it as I liked the idea of an aft cabin but it soon occured to be wasted space and cramped and too tricky to get my old dog on board as it was a plummet into the cockpit, this was the finished cockpit.


NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk
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cliveshep

Thailand
1324 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2021 :  21:18:08  Show Profile Send cliveshep a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd say that was not 5 metres long as the OP suggests but a tad over 6 metres looking at the pics on the NBN site. The proportions are totally wrong for an 18 or 18.5 plus it is not a lapstrake hull form as the 18.5's were - i.e 2 planking lines moulded in but only one as the 20' and Conquests.

So that makes it a 20 hull but the only way that superstructure would work would be as a Mk ll Conquest - ali windows, no porthole, the back hacked off to give that very generous cockpit space. I'd say a Conquest modified to make it a day boat.

I suggest you borrow a moisture meter and prod all over the transom because I'll lay any odds you'll get significant readings above the motor well. That being the case I'd consider, as the boat is painted anyway, getting a mini grinder and some Inox discs and cutting away a large portion of the outer skin from say 100mm in from hull sides and bottom up to underside of the side-deck turn down and motor well lip - the bit normally covered with aluminium angle, which is where the water gets in anyway. Prise off the piece and set aside to re-use, and hack away all the grot underneath.

Build up a new transom core in exterior grade plywood, clamp it back to the inner layup over a couple of layers of resin and matt and allow to cure. Then grind the 100mm sides and bottom to a long bevel using an 80 grit flap disc in your angle grinder, also those sides and bottom of the piece you saved, apply a couple of resin-rich coats of csm to the new transom and coat the inside of your saved piece in resin and clamp or wedge it into place. I'd screw it with a few 25mm dry-wall screws to hold it until the resin cures and bonds it. Remove the screws then, you can fill the holes later, and glass in the bevelled joints in over-lapping layers of 50mm then 75mm and 100mm WOVEN (NOT CSM (Chopped Strand Matt) glass cloth and resin to bond the panel back to the hull. Any inside transom not backed up by original reinforcing construction will need sanding over the exposed cuts and glassing back in with a couple of layers of csm. Laps should be a minimum of 50mm over each side of the cut for the first layer and 75-100mm for the 2nd. The reason is to get as much bond of the new layers to old as possible.

As a tip - if you don't want to lie on your belly under the motor well sanding use a painter's electric heat gun to soften the grp surface and scrape it off with a shave-hook, that triangular blade on a handle painters use when burning off paint, that will remove crud and resin and expose a nice roughened area of glass fibre to bond to.


Finally - get some epoxy and glass bead filler mixed and trowel it over the repair having first sanded off any lumps. Sand smooth and paint! Finally bond on the new aluminium angle with Sikaflex and aluminium screws to seal those joints that let water into it in the first place. Then you can happily hang that 100hp on the back.



Finally living the dream!

Edited by - cliveshep on 26 Mar 2021 21:33:51
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Piers

United Kingdom
32 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2021 :  02:09:32  Show Profile Send Piers a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by df

Usually a hack and slash job, have a look at whay I did to my old 25 here.
I ended up with a pretty large cockpit, originally bought it as I liked the idea of an aft cabin but it soon occured to be wasted space and cramped and too tricky to get my old dog on board as it was a plummet into the cockpit, this was the finished cockpit.


NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk



Brilliant, makes lots of sense. Thanks for the info!
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Piers

United Kingdom
32 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2021 :  02:12:32  Show Profile Send Piers a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cliveshep

I'd say that was not 5 metres long as the OP suggests but a tad over 6 metres looking at the pics on the NBN site. The proportions are totally wrong for an 18 or 18.5 plus it is not a lapstrake hull form as the 18.5's were - i.e 2 planking lines moulded in but only one as the 20' and Conquests.

So that makes it a 20 hull but the only way that superstructure would work would be as a Mk ll Conquest - ali windows, no porthole, the back hacked off to give that very generous cockpit space. I'd say a Conquest modified to make it a day boat.

I suggest you borrow a moisture meter and prod all over the transom because I'll lay any odds you'll get significant readings above the motor well. That being the case I'd consider, as the boat is painted anyway, getting a mini grinder and some Inox discs and cutting away a large portion of the outer skin from say 100mm in from hull sides and bottom up to underside of the side-deck turn down and motor well lip - the bit normally covered with aluminium angle, which is where the water gets in anyway. Prise off the piece and set aside to re-use, and hack away all the grot underneath.

Build up a new transom core in exterior grade plywood, clamp it back to the inner layup over a couple of layers of resin and matt and allow to cure. Then grind the 100mm sides and bottom to a long bevel using an 80 grit flap disc in your angle grinder, also those sides and bottom of the piece you saved, apply a couple of resin-rich coats of csm to the new transom and coat the inside of your saved piece in resin and clamp or wedge it into place. I'd screw it with a few 25mm dry-wall screws to hold it until the resin cures and bonds it. Remove the screws then, you can fill the holes later, and glass in the bevelled joints in over-lapping layers of 50mm then 75mm and 100mm WOVEN (NOT CSM (Chopped Strand Matt) glass cloth and resin to bond the panel back to the hull. Any inside transom not backed up by original reinforcing construction will need sanding over the exposed cuts and glassing back in with a couple of layers of csm. Laps should be a minimum of 50mm over each side of the cut for the first layer and 75-100mm for the 2nd. The reason is to get as much bond of the new layers to old as possible.

As a tip - if you don't want to lie on your belly under the motor well sanding use a painter's electric heat gun to soften the grp surface and scrape it off with a shave-hook, that triangular blade on a handle painters use when burning off paint, that will remove crud and resin and expose a nice roughened area of glass fibre to bond to.


Finally - get some epoxy and glass bead filler mixed and trowel it over the repair having first sanded off any lumps. Sand smooth and paint! Finally bond on the new aluminium angle with Sikaflex and aluminium screws to seal those joints that let water into it in the first place. Then you can happily hang that 100hp on the back.



Finally living the dream!




Thanks for the fantastic information Clive, that’s sure to be very helpful. And good to have another knowledgeable head confirm it as a Conquest. I think it’s official now.
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