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david67
United Kingdom
54 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Dec 2020 : 22:52:49
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Evening Captains although this one maybe better addressed to engineers.
At the stern of the good ship Paon du Jour is a 15hp (ok stop giggling )
Mariner, incidentally at the helm there is an ancient mariner.
The outboard is charging the starting battery and a leisure battery which powers nowt but the stereo. The ancient mariner meanwhile just charges his glass.
Now comes the techy bit, if I were to install an 800w 12v electric heater and do the 40min meander from Coltishall to wroxham, pop in the pub for pint ( battery isolated ) would I have drained more from the batteries than the outboard charger had put in ?
Many thanks in advance , have a super Christmas.
All the nice girls love a sailor !!!!!! |
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df
United Kingdom
5991 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2020 : 07:40:30
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At 800w you'd get warm just sitting by the plug, that would be about 65A! I wouldn't plug that into my princess with 2x alternators.
Are you sure about the 800W as that seems a lot @ 12v?
I would imaging that an outboard charging system would struggle with any heating setup other than a gas/diesel blown air system as you'll only get around 10A with the engine flat out and that is before voltage drops between regulator and battery bank.
And there's nowt wrong with a 15hp mariner, I had one on my old Norman 25 and it was great motor for rivers.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
 Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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Mad Harold
United Kingdom
228 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2020 : 22:31:37
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Mariner engines are I think are yamaha copies.
My Norman 20 has a 8hp Tohatsu and has a top speed (according to the Sumlog thing)of 8kts.
Can't find the alternator output,but I have a 5kw diesel heater and it copes with that.
It takes about 10amps for five minutes on the start up cycle,and just over 1amp on the low heat setting which is quite enough for a little Norman |
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cliveshep
Thailand
1324 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2020 : 03:28:44
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To calculate battery amps of your heater divide the 800 watts by 12 volts and as you will have to run a 230/240 volt heater through an inverter which typically is only 85% efficient divide your answer by 0.85.
i.e. 800/12= 66.6666 recurring /0.85= 78.4314 amps.
A rule of thumb is divide watts by 10 for amps so 800/10=80
So you can plug in your 1000 watt inverter and watch your battery bubble!
OR you could buy a cheap second hand 1000w generator for under £200 here:-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clarke-Generator-1000-Watt-Generator-Power-lnverter/333808358567?hash=item4db88754a7:g:-3sAAOSwNupfQSbQ
Or you could install one of those (modified to suit BSS) Chinese diesel heaters as Mad Harold suggested.
Even cheaper and much more satisfactory option although 5kw on a little 20 is a bit excessive you could always turn it down I suppose.
And with Christmas approaching Paen de Jour ought to be called Dinde de Jour
Finally living the dream!
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Edited by - cliveshep on 04 Dec 2020 03:38:27 |
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df
United Kingdom
5991 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2020 : 07:16:26
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240v was never mentioned Clive, but the chinaspacher is probably the way to go, but with eber/webasto exhaust hose and proper skin fitting along with proper fuel tank fitment and better quality fuel hose.
A 4Kw eber roasts the hell out of my 30 footer in the depths of winter (I hope so as I'll be onboard tonight) and my saloon has lots of window area to chill down, I have extra outlets either side of the berth so I can run a bit of spare ducting under the duvet which means we always get into a warm (well hot)and dry bed no matter how cold and damp outside.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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cliveshep
Thailand
1324 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2020 : 14:43:17
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Sorry Dave, you're right. I just made a false assumption but 800 watts is the same regardless - 66 amp with out factoring in losses at 12 volt, and 78 amp from the battery at 240 volt via inverter. Same-oh same oh - no such thing as a free lunch electrically either.
Finally living the dream!
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Mad Harold
United Kingdom
228 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2020 : 08:12:16
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To minimise heat loss on my little Norman,I have "sort of" double glazed my windows using car window film.
Not peeled the backing off but stuck it to the inside window frames with double sided tape.
It is certainly an improvement most noticable
when the temperature is around zero.I am now going to do a more professional job by using thin perspex and magnetic tape so it can easily be removed for window cleaning. |
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df
United Kingdom
5991 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2020 : 09:40:47
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I bet that reduces condensation as well, good plan.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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Mad Harold
United Kingdom
228 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2020 : 08:15:57
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Reduced condensation,well yes and no.Front and one side window no condensation,but one side window does steam up a bit under the film.
I am guessing that there is a small leak somewhere around that window. |
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df
United Kingdom
5991 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2020 : 10:01:46
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Steaming up a bit isn't really a big problem, it's the water that runs off the insides after a cold night of 2 adults and a dog breathing out loads of moisture, if it reduces that you are on a winner.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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cliveshep
Thailand
1324 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2020 : 00:09:55
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I blame the dog - make the dog sleep outside!
Finally living the dream!
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Mad Harold
United Kingdom
228 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2020 : 04:53:16
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Hm,don't tell us what the two adults were doing to cause condensation!
No seriously,I have found why one window is steaming up under the window film.It is me!I didn't have enough film to completely cover all the windows,so with the steamy window I used two pieces and being temporary I only stuck the top and sides,leaving a gap at the bottom and a gap where the two pieces join.
Warm air is it would seem getting to the outer pane.
A point in passing.Before fitting the window film,any condensation running into the window grooves would drain outside through the drain slots in the bottom of the window frame.If yours has these drain slots (or drain holes) are they clear of muck? |
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df
United Kingdom
5991 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2020 : 05:09:02
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My sliding sections drain outside ok but a lot of the condensation forms on the frame itself, I use a karcher window vac to get a lot of it off especially in the saloon where the windows are huge areas, my screen has quite a steep slope which makes it a bit awkward as the vac doesn't like working upside down.
With a homemade lead those window vacs will charge off usb sockets nicely.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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Mad Harold
United Kingdom
228 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2020 : 06:28:05
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I've not had condensation on the window frames,but on another forum (CWF)it has been quite extensively discussed.
The suggestions were,adhesive sponge tape,or sticking draught excluder around the frame.It seems to be necessary to stop warm moist air touching the cold aluminium. |
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Outboard electrical power output
