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DavidAshton
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
 Posted - 24 May 2020 : 10:37:53
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2 boring questions for you guys
1. At the end of last season my boat wouldn't start (Norman 20 with old Cortina watermotor), after research i replaced the solenoid myself, still nothing. Just clicking, got in touch with a mechanic who 'fixed' it, but then the weather turned and didnt use it again last year - I had it out of the water for winter, and the mechanic serviced it, and suggested a new starter motor - so I said go for it. Its back in the water now, and still wont start - it tries but never quite gets there, he's mega busy now of course but promises to look on Tuesday, and said it might be the solenoid  I have said I've already replaced that! I also bought a new battery yesterday and that made zero difference too (Another one of his suggestions). I'm getting annoyed now so any advice?
2. I have someone coming to see the boat on Weds for the BSS - I have taken normal precautions such as new fire extinguishers and a carbon monoxide detector, so, is there anything else I need to update to avoid failure? AND does he have to see the boat running - as per question 1 - if teh mechanic doesn't get it working will this affect the BSS? or doesn't that come into it?
Thanks as always!
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Fred
2007 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2020 : 10:53:16
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Never boring!
David, you don't really make it clear whether or not the starter is actually turning the engine over properly, or not. If it isn't then the first issue you need to solve is if the starter/solenoid is getting sufficient power from the battery, i.e. battery fully charged and all leads/connections in good order.
Sort that first and let us know the outcome. If all is OK there then we can suggest a plan of action to sort the engine itself. (The standard Cortina method in my day was to tell the girlfriend to get out and push but probably not entirely appropriate in this case!)
On the BSS issue, there should be no need to start the engine - the test is largely for safety of onboard systems. The examiner will need the battery operational to test any other electrical systems. |
Edited by - Fred on 24 May 2020 10:56:40 |
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df
United Kingdom
5991 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2020 : 10:56:22
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BSS doesn't need the engine running, have you checked all the cables especially earth between battery and starter, also try bypassing the isolator switch (only temporarily) to see if that is causing a power drop.
A screwdriver across solenoid terminals will rule out problems there but don't do it with any spilt fuel about as it involves lots of sparks.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
 Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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DavidAshton
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2020 : 11:04:02
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Thanks for the replies!
I put a brand new battery on it yesterday - just to rule that out!
When you turn the key it makes the usually sound like it trying to start up, but never sparks, its as if theres no fuel in it - which there is, I fuelled up on my last attempted trip in Oct - which is when it wouldn't start so the fuel was never used, I also topped up with 5L last week just in case, wondered if it could be a blockage in the fuel pump? someone said maybe old fuel but its not that old? The leads look 'ok' but not new, there is some wear on them
You suggested the screwdriver across terminals before but i daren't do that!  not that brave!
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Fred
2007 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2020 : 11:14:34
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"but never sparks, its as if theres no fuel in it "
Two entirely different issues.
You need to check if power is reaching the plugs, then if the plugs are clean, gaps OK and sparking. May be a problem with the distributor if it is pre-electronic tech. |
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Fred
2007 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2020 : 11:41:12
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Here's the Watermota "Engine won't start" procedure:
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df
United Kingdom
5991 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2020 : 14:01:58
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Has the fuel shut off been closed? Is there fuel getting to the carb? Are you getting volts to the coil?
From your original description I was under the impression it wouldn't turn the engine over rather than just not starting.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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trevork
3949 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2020 : 15:47:07
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| Sorry to divert, but the other consideration for your safety test is gas. Is there any on the boat?? The usual candidates for problems are the old electrolux fridges and the Flavell cookers. |
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DavidAshton
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2020 : 16:03:48
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I've tried the fuel switch
Fault finding chart looks good i'll go through that thank you
He serviced it so assume he'd have gone through all the checks for spark plugs etc - who knows, will have a look and maybe replace, and all wiring - above and beyond that i get lost!
No gas on boat it was disconnected before I got it and sealed off
Never simple is it! |
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Fred
2007 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2020 : 16:30:35
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| I think I would concentrate on the distributor - often overlooked and a weak point when this engine is in a boat! Take the cap off and inspect it for cracking or condensation or corrosion on pins Check the points for corrosion and correct gap. Check rotor for damage, Try replacing the condenser - cheap but often an easy solution overlooked. |
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Mad Harold
United Kingdom
228 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2020 : 21:00:51
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Another check to add to the list is to check the carb float chamber and needle valve.Modern crappy petrol turns to a jelly like substance if it is left standing in the carb for long periods.
While you have access to the carb float (this is a long shot) take it out and give it a shake to see if it is leaking fuel into it.If it is then excess fuel will flood the engine. |
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cliveshep
Thailand
1324 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2020 : 09:04:07
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The OP is not very clear on what is happening - be good to know if the starter spins the engine over ok as I think given the tale of replacement starter, solenoid and battery the only thing left would be the connections and earth connections.
The 1600 cc Ford cross-flow engine was marvellous in a Norman 20, I fitted one into a new boat and loved the sporty performance and economy. Never had problems BUT it is an old engine, like 40 years old perhaps. So like Fred I'd look to see if you take out one plug and lay it on the head and crank are you getting a nice fat crackling blue spark? If a bit weak and yellow, clean and re-gap the points and change the faulty condenser.
If the spark is still weak - change the leads and suppressor caps, also the ht lead from the coil. Finally, replace the coil - any 12 volt coil from a scrappie will do if you can find one.
Then check fuel system and clean carb jets etc. Crank it with top off float-chamber - is it squirting fuel nicely? (make sure that fuel doesn't go into the bilge - lots of rags!)
You did winterise it didn't you? I mean you didn't leave plain water in it to freeze and crack the block?
Finally living the dream!
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DavidAshton
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2020 : 17:47:24
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Just thought I'd put an update in this thread - might help others in the future.
I did read all your suggestions, and looked on youTube - but some of it was above my capabilities, so I didn't want to make matters worse!
As it happens, my brother came and moored up alongside me last week after a boozy day on the river, after chatting to his mate who was a mechanic - he came aboard and checked it out, he basically mentioned all of the checks that you guys suggested! and his diagnosis was the distributor.
The next day I managed to unclip it - but that was it! couldn't see a thing and rather than do it by touch - I passed all your - and this guys info on to the guy thats been working on my boat, he fitted a new condenser, rotor arm, cleaned and regapped the points, cleaned up the plugs and... IT LIVES!!!!!
Advised me to change the spark plugs so went and bought some today so thats a little job for me to do.
Sailed through the BSS too so I can happily go boating once again - which is probably why the weather has turned!!
But I don't care - rain or shine i'm boating - sod the weather!
Thanks for your help guys
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df
United Kingdom
5991 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2020 : 18:16:38
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At least you're boating, you lucky sod.....
Good to hear it lives.
I got to check mine yesterday as was doing a collection nearby, it was good to see the bilges dry and hear it fire nicely, gave the engines a run for 20 minutes and plugged the battery charger in, worked the sea cocks and came home again, at least it was my guvnors time and diesel.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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cliveshep
Thailand
1324 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2020 : 01:40:46
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I suggested condenser but also you can usefully change the rotor arm and distributor cap and leads and plug caps because they get old and HT leads break down where the insulation cracks, dampness gets in and the HT spark "tracks" along the leads. This of course gives a weak spark at the plugs.
Now so long as you swap the new cap exactly as the old one, i.e HT leads to correct cylinders - no problem but if you are unsure get some masking tape or sticky labels, mark each lead according to which cylinder - convention is no.1 is nearest the front or water pump end of the engine - you can pull off the plug caps, unclip the distributor cap, and take it into the cabin and make up the new one while enjoying a nice cuppa! Mark the leads exactly the same and you cannot go wrong.
I suggest you also get another new condenser and keep it safe and dry and do NOT throw away the old cap and leads but pop them into a plastic bag as an emergency spare as they still work.
The only thing you might also consider having as a spare is a coil because they can and do fail with little or no notice. Remember, any 12 volt coil will do.
Also useful to have as a spare is a fuel pump - again a 2nd hand one can be obtained, new diaphragm fitted, and keep it aboard, then if yours fails any mechanic can change it without driving 100 miles to source a new one. Your engine was first made in about 1967 so could be 53 years old if it was one of the first.
They are a really brilliant engine and when you consider that a boat just doesn't do anything like the engine hours of a car there will be a lot of life left in your engine. Just make sure you do oil and filter changes regularly and you've got a "good-un".
Finally living the dream!
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DavidAshton
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2020 : 15:53:04
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Ok yet more 'problems'........
nightmare day today, boat was a little sluggish and stopped, a mechanic had a look and said i'd bollocked up my spark plug installation so was only firing on 3 - he adjusted, started first time
did a short trip, all ok, way back teh boat was a bit slugging almost like the fuel wasn't going through, was a bit irratic
got to the lock not far from home - smoke from engine, so left it to cool down, what would this be? faulty water pump?
Seriously getting sick of this now, costing a fortune and nothing but problems.
further to this - nice fella towed me back to my mooring, when we got there it was tricky getting it in, then he had a problem with his outboard... and then... IT BUSRT INTO FLAMES!!!, seriously you've never seen anything like it, i **** myself! the whole back of his boat was on fire, like 10ft flames, and that was connected to a full plastic fuel can!!! a big one, he managed to put it all out with an extinguisher! even the river was on fire from spilt fuel
scary scary afternoon!!!
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2 Questions
