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Mad Harold
United Kingdom
228 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Dec 2019 : 15:10:00
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I'm on my second Norman 20 and there are quite a few differences between my present and previous on.
Most obvious is my present one sits fairly nose down and my first one sat more or less level.No ballast in either.This doesn't bother me but because my first Norman is moored next door people have commented on this.
The other differences are that this one is much quicker and handles better than my first despite having a smaller engine,and both boats having a rudder.
The most surprising difference is,with my first Norman,it simply would not get into the locks on the Huddersfield Narrow without lifting the fenders,and even then collecting lots of scratches.
This one goes into the locks fenders down,without scraping the hull (unless I cock it up)
I am quite interested to know why this is,either Norman used more than one mould for the 20 and one was slightly bigger,or it might be that my present boat still has the fibreglass inner shell and on my first boat a previous owner had stripped this out and re trimmed the interior.Perhaps causing the hull to spread a little.
Would like to hear some opinions. |
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df
United Kingdom
5994 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2019 : 19:00:38
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Have you got a piccie of both? All normans were 6'10" beam as far as I'm aware, the 18/18.5/20's were all prone to running nose down a bit.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
 Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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Mad Harold
United Kingdom
228 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2019 : 21:06:08
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| I'll take some piccies tomorrow. |
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Mad Harold
United Kingdom
228 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2019 : 20:53:42
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Tok some pictures today going up the cut for a lunchtime pint.
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trevork
3949 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2019 : 23:14:45
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| Yes, a Norman 20 indeed! I have heard of some boats "spreading" a bit. This is usually due to some internal mods. Especially anything with any part of a bulkhead. |
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Mad Harold
United Kingdom
228 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2019 : 11:14:34
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Thank you.As my first Norman 20 had the interior fibreglass lining stripped out and re-lined throughout,that would probably account for the tight fit through lock entrances.
By the way,my Norman is the blue hulled one,not the scruffy,unloved one which hasn'moved in about three years.It saddens me to see it in this state.Can't really understand why they bought it. |
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df
United Kingdom
5994 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2019 : 11:29:55
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Thanks for the piccies, I was half expecting to see that one wasn't actually a norman but they are both definately one and the same, Are the rubbing strakes the same thickness? Fender sizes?
I can't imagine a N20 could vary that much in beam.
Were you entering the same lock in the same direction? I once went through cardington lock with an ocean30 in front and had to shut the gate quick as it started to peel the rubbing strakes off it, turned out he had never been at the top end of the lock before always towards the back and the pen isn't straight, it also had a taper in to the top, we had to reverse out to let him back in behind and all was fine then as the wider bits were above concrete level when full.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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Mad Harold
United Kingdom
228 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2019 : 15:24:32
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| I think Trevork's post is probably the most likely explanation for squeezing into locks.A previous owner had stripped the inside including the cockpit lockers,and fibreglass cabin lining,and remade all the interior (very nicely) with thick ply.It'quite likely that this and renewing the cabin bulkhead and perhaps squeezing it into place has caused the hull to expand a little. |
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Tom Morgan
141 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2019 : 19:20:33
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My Norman 23 sits in the water a little bit nose down. (But the inside of the hull is always bone dry).
The only problem this causes is that the gunwales, which should slope towards the stern slightly,
are absolutely level, so water pools along the gunwales and doesn't run off as it should. I'm going to
correct this by putting a bag or two of gravel under the cockpit floor. (If anyone thinks this is a bad idea,
please let me know). |
Edited by - Tom Morgan on 22 Dec 2019 19:22:12 |
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Mad Harold
United Kingdom
228 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2019 : 20:15:51
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I never gave my Norman 20's nose down attitude much thought untill a couple of people commented on it.
Today I put a couple of concrete blocks at the back of the cockpit lockers.Havn't sailed it yet (there were people fishing and tend to get a bit "ratty"when boats go past) so I'll take it out tomorrow.
I want to see if ballast aft affects the handling as it moves the centre of gravity further aft.I'm not clever enough to know if a boat pivots around it's centre of gravity or it's centre of bouyancy.Probably the same thing, but if the c of g is too far aft then I would guess that the rudder will be less effective.
Will post tomorrow when I have been along the cut. |
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df
United Kingdom
5994 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2019 : 22:40:53
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If people are fishing try taking the ballast out and towing a mudweight, that'll pee em off proper, you licence is dearer than theirs so sod em.
I pride myself on my pc attitude. 
If the bow down attitude at displacement speed gives a longer waterline it will probably be more fuel efficient and faster at same rpm, that is how hull speeds work.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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cliveshep
Thailand
1324 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2019 : 03:27:57
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Fitting an inboard/out-drive together with fuel tank does solve the trim problem, gives rise to other issues of course.
I bought a brand new N20 from Ladyline and it handled like a pregnant cow on the water 1st time out so brought it home to my yard, hammer and chisel soon hacked off the outboard well, moulded the transom back in (Norman gave me the correct gel-coat colour), fitted transom strengthening and glassed in longitudinal engine bearers and oil-tight bulkhead and gave it a 1600cc crossflow and Enfield leg. I had to fit trim-tabs then to get the nose to go down properly but it became a proper fast off-shore boat.
So - there's your answer - give up ditch-crawling, fit a decent lump and leg and go off-shore and tidal!
Ok - no need to go that far, put some weight aft and it will handle a lot better too.
Oh - and have a Happy Christmas one and all!
Finally living the dream!
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Edited by - cliveshep on 23 Dec 2019 03:29:32 |
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Mad Harold
United Kingdom
228 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2019 : 16:09:54
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Put two concrete blocks and twelve engieering bricks that were lying around the marina.Used a spirit level and found that the cockpit floor and locker rims agreed a level,but found it was still nose down,even with me(twelve and a half stone)leaning against the outboard well.Went for a run up the cut and found no noticable difference in the handling.I think it will need one and a half times more ballast to make it level,and then some more to make it slope back a little.I would prefer to have it sloping back so that any water runs aft.At present it of course runs fwd and ends up in the fwd locker.It is mainly condensation from the inside of the canopy,some mornings it is dripping,and I pump out the fwd locker now and then and it is usually only half a cupful.The water percolating under the cabin floor tends to make the cabin lockers and the cabin damp,not nice.
I am not keen to increase the draught because I cruise the notoriously shallow Huddersfield Narrow quite a lot,so after a bit of thought I removed the ballast and decided to live with the nose down attitude.At some point I will look into the possibility of making some sort of "dam"between the cockpit and cabin floors.
Happy Christmas everyone. |
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df
United Kingdom
5994 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2019 : 16:32:08
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Sorry Harold I just took the liberty of tweaking your side by side piccies a bit to reduce the scrolling required, hope you don't object.
I recon a 115HP motor on the back would help the trim a bit, I'll gladly offer to test run it for you.....
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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Mad Harold
United Kingdom
228 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2019 : 11:53:32
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Can't see any doctored photos but do what you like with them.
Like the idea of 115hp on the back,but I am getting some flack from moorers here with my 8hp Tohatsu.It'new with new stiff controls and is "all or nothing"pwer output.
Sigh! another job to add to the long list.
Happy Christmas. |
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df
United Kingdom
5994 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2019 : 12:56:08
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I only resized them.
There is probably a tension adjustment on the throttle lever somewhere.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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opinions sought.
