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Deaks
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 14:18:40
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Hi all.
As a keen amateur woodworker I'm looking to buy a Norman 20 as a project boat. There's one on a well known auction site right now that would fit the bill nicely. But I need to get it home (at least 150 miles), where I'd be doing the refurbishing, plus I'm planning to trailer the boat most of the time thereafter, as opposed to mooring. So it looks like my first purchase really needs to be a trailer, both to transport and to store in my driveway. A quick look through the net suggests I'll be lucky to get away with about £1500 for an appropriate trailer. Does that sound about right? Is there an obvious supplier I should keep in mind?
Thanks in advance,
Deaks
PS: Am I dreaming about regularly trailing a 20 foot boat? |
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mikeb
90 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 17:01:55
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for that money you should be getting a spanking good 2nd hand trailer, if you can find one for sale in that condition. another few hundred pounds would you probably see you a brand new one.
decent second hand trailers are a bit like hens teeth though. to give you an idea, i just bought a fairly tidy one from a member on here for 600, although it does need the brakes servicing.
you might be better to hold out for a boat that comes with a trailer, they don't seem to add that much to the value of a boat. |
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Deaks
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 17:37:11
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| Thanks for that. Whilst I've been prevaricating the 'bay one has sold, or at least disappeared from the listings. Back to square one. Haven't seen many for sale with trailer included but I'll keep my eyes open. |
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jamesbagnall
United Kingdom
11 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 22:02:14
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Hi!
I've had exactly the same conundrum, having recently bought a Norman 20.
My other boat is a little 16ft Microplus on a Snipe trailer - and as the all up weight is less than 750kg, the trailer doesn't need brakes.
It's a doddle to tow.
I previously had a 19ft and much heavier Microplus - a 561 - that probably weighs about the same as a Norman 20 (the 561 is a little wider on the beam than the 561).
The 561 needed a much more substatial trailer with brakes to tow it, and when I put it on a weightbridge it was 1,500kg. It was a bit of a pig to tow on anything other than a 4x4 to be honest (and most 'normal' cars have a max towing capacity of 1,000-1,200kg - although heavier cars - diesel Mondeos and similar have around 1,500-1,800kg).
From my research, and seeing on this website that the Norman 20 weight about 865kg, the 1,300kg all up weight trailers seems to be the best option, and lots of manufacturers do them.
So it seems that a Norman 20 is quite trailerable on the right trailer behind the right vehicle. Although, you may know that the trailer weight legally is one thing, the recommended maximum should be no more that 85% of the gross weight of your car. By law you can go up to the full towing weight as listed on your V50 document, but breaking the 85% rule would be foolish.
The cheapest brand new trailer I could find that would be up for the job, also on eBay, was from Extreme trailers.
I asked them about the Norman 20 and they tell me they have sold quite a few specifically for this boat.
They responded to my email with the text below:
"A suitable trailer would be the Extreme 1300kg HD Swing.
Price is £1695 inc vat, please go to the link below for more information.
http://www.extrememarine.co.uk/extreme-1300kg-swing-hd-boat-trailer-p-226.html "
When I asked them about the maximum boat length for this trailer being 19ft, they said that this wouldn't be a problem.
I'm probably going to go for one of these, once I've sold my Microplus and trailer in the Spring to raise the funds.
Cheers,
James.
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Deaks
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2012 : 10:21:54
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I can see this is going to get really interesting.
I was hoping to use our Volvo V50 to tow - but although a 1500kg towing weight is (just) within limits it exceeds the 85% rule, as the Volvo only weighs 1500kg.
For 10 years we've had a BMW 840, my passion. It qualifies on both kerb weight and towing capacity but I can't help but think it wouldn't make the ideal tow car, being rather low slung.
Anyone out there using a Volvo V50, Audi A4, VW Passat etc? |
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Morse
United Kingdom
82 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2012 : 12:04:31
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4 x 4 is really the way to go. It's very hard to get a boat down to its design weight, especially with an outboard as well. As a general rule it will always weigh more than you think. An ordinary car doesn't normally do too well on slipways, and you could end up with a new clutch or two.
I used to tow lots of boats, and have been over the 85% lots of times. You do need to be on the ball, and I wouldn't recommend it unless you have a fair bit of experience.
Jim |
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jamesbagnall
United Kingdom
11 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2012 : 20:34:09
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Hi again.
I think Jim is right with this.
The heavy Microplus that I towed was behind a Nissan Terrano 4x4 (with towing capacity of 2,700kg).
Having towed a heavy boat (Sheerline 24) on a brand new purpose built trailer, behind a two year old Land Rover Defender 90, with a train weight of 3,450kg (right near the limit of it's legal capacity of 3,500kg) it was a hairy tow I can tell you!
My latest thinking, is that I'm either going to bite the bullet and buy a brand new trailer with the right capacity and get it towed by a professional (or hire/borrow a 4x4), or the other option I thought about, is to buy a battered 2nd hand trailer and contract a 'vehicle recovery' type contractor to winch it onto a flatbed every time I want to move waterways. I figured that a battered 'yard trailer' can be had for a few hundred quid, which leaves an awful lot of cash spare to pay to have it loaded onto a recovery truck a few times - and then I don't have to buy new pants every time I want it moved and tow it myself! ;-)
Cheers,
James. |
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Morse
United Kingdom
82 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2012 : 21:04:54
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Good thinking James. Alternatives do exist. I have used Nick Lancaster a number of times, and he has been excellent. I believe he is not too well these days, but his son seems to be carrying on.
If you do want to tow the boat yourself, do be sure to let the wheel bearings cool down before dipping the trailer. Fastest way to ruin bearings is to put them in the water while hot. Also be sure to get the nose weight right. The tow bar will have a vertical load limit, and on an ordinary car this might be 70kg, not really enough to tow a large boat.
Jim |
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Deaks
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2012 : 12:00:53
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Hmmmm.
I'm beginning to think that a 20 is just a couple of feet (and a couple of hundred Kg) too big for what I need.
I was looking for something easily towed for a 'Weather's good, let's push off for the weekend' situation.
Maybe I should be looking for something a little smaller. My car has about a 1500kg limit and won't be changed for at least 18 months. |
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mikeb
90 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2012 : 15:42:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Deaks
Hmmmm.
I'm beginning to think that a 20 is just a couple of feet (and a couple of hundred Kg) too big for what I need.
I was looking for something easily towed for a 'Weather's good, let's push off for the weekend' situation.
Maybe I should be looking for something a little smaller. My car has about a 1500kg limit and won't be changed for at least 18 months.
Like most things in life - it's a compromise. If you went smaller on the boat, would it still be useful for your needs? A Norman 18 could save you a couple of hundred kilos (on paper at least), but even then you're going to need a decent sized car to tow it. I doubt that you'll find any boat of these dimensions significantly lighter, so you'd have to make a big length sacrifice to get the weight down.
I should think your v50 would tow either an 18 or a 20 without much issue. Launching it is another matter though, and on all but the easiest of slipways 4wd is going to be invaluable. Not sure on your intentions, but I doubt that you'd want to be towing it long distances regularly anyway?
As for nose weight requirements, they don't vary that much - any tow vehicle less than a commercial lorry is not going to be much more than 70kg. My pickup truck has a 3 ton towing capacity, but the nose weight is is still only 100kg. You should be able to get the nose weight right by shifting the weight about on the trailer. If not then the axle might need repositioning, or the trailer is plain wrong for the boat somehow. |
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Deano
United Kingdom
1843 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2012 : 20:34:10
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Look about for a cheap mooring, you will use the boat so much more. You could have a few years moorings for the price of a good trailer.
Many boatyards will let you store your trailer at the yard and launch from there - they probably charge less than a mooring and it saves you the tow.
Find out what options are available locally.
Dean - Boating on the Great Ouse.
Freeman 30 "Silver Gem"
See the photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/54758027@N00/ |
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1st post - Norman 20 trailer advice please
