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Stan the Man
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Dec 2011 : 19:08:03
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Steve T
Still without my Propex as a damaged leg (don't ask) prevented me pootling off to the chandlers. Now expecting it by courier.
Had a bit of a "crisis" moment yesterday when I realised, somewhat belatedly, that the "wardrobe" was not wide enough to allow the Propex plus the hot air outlet duct to be fitted. After cutting out some templates, I've decided that the unit will fit fine if mounted at an angle - the wardrobe is just shy of 25 inches wide and 22 inches deep. I intend to fit a hinged shelf inside on which the Propex will be mounted "on the skewiff". The outlet ducting will pass through the shelf to enter the hold under the cockpit floor where the "Y-piece" will distribute the hot air to the inside of the cabins through vents mounted on the footwells. The inlet/exhaust stainless ducting will loop down inside the wardrobe and then up to connect to the hull fitting which I intend fitting just under the gunwales. I accept that, from time to time, I shall need to drain moisture from these ducts but I do want to get the fitting up as high as possible to try and avoid collision damage.
I've already started fitting the 240 volt hook-up wiring to include sockets in front/rear cabins and a fused spur socket inside the "wardrobe" to power the E-side of the Propex.
If you have your unit, I'd appreciate your replying as to the diameter of the 12 bolt wiring loom included in the kit as I want to put this in trunking for protection and will, space allowing, put another couple of low voltage cable pairs in the same conduit.
Regards, Stan |
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Stan the Man
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2011 : 19:12:21
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df
My stainless ducting for air inlet/exhaust will be basically in the shape of a swan neck to enable me to get the hull fitting as high and out of harms way as possible. I am presuming that condensed water in these ducts will need draining from time to time just like your Webasto.
Regards, Stan |
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Steve T
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2011 : 18:06:46
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Hi Stan
I have got the heater and kit. A bit like a kid at Christmas I opened everything and took in very little!
We took it to the boat the next day and got into a very constructive conversation with the mooring owner, and have left everything on the boat as he is getting two or three guys to give me a quote for the install.
Once it was decided that my single 85Ah battery was not ideal on its' own, and therefore another battery and an intelligent charger would probably be needed, and then a method of charging when cruising away from shorepower (solar/PV panel)would also be a good idea, and finally I only have a single 240 breaker, and the thinking was that a Twin MCB would be ideal so the whole install would be workable under all circumstances etc. etc.....I decided to get quotes to have it all done by someone better qualified than me.
I have taken the view that I know how to do my job and this pays for the boating times, and I am not a marine gas engineer!
I want it right and fully usable, but am a little concerned about the likely cost
Sorry - I have no idea about the 12 volt sizes.
Not much help am I?
Steve |
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Stan the Man
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2011 : 22:24:58
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Steve
No worries and best of lack with your install.
According to the manual I downloaded from the Propex site, the unit consumes a maximum of 1.7A of battery power when running on gas or, in the case of the 2000E, a maximum of 2.2A when running on 240 volts. For both modes, the standby consumption is 0.01A. The higher currents are used only, of course, when the unit is actually "fired up" and producing hot air for circulation. Therefore, unless you are going to be running the unit for long periods without the battery charging (e.g. leaving the unit on while you are not there), an additional battery seems somewhat of a luxury. I only have one battery and do not intend to fit another, although I shall only be using the heater while I'm on the boat, either moored or "in transit".
As a matter of interest, is your single MCB protected by an ELCB (earth leakage circuit breaker)? A typical "garage" consumer unit, which is what I have fitted (not completely wired up yet), has the ELCB plus two MCBs. In a domestic setting, the ELCB trips to protect someone because the earth in the unit has a good electrical connection to the actual ground (i.e. planet earth). In the case of a "plastic" boat, the equivalent is going to be the canal itself. To that end, the earth on the ELCB needs to be connected to the canal, and I shall be fitting a 10mm (miniumum) multi-strand cable between the earth on the consumer unit and the negative terminal on the battery, the latter already being connected to the body of the outboard. This will provide the appropriate earthing as long as the outboard is not out of the water. "Hunky 'B'" has an outboard with an electric lift and your may be similar. If so, the ELCB protection is only there while the outboard is immersed.
A point here is that this setup, while providing essential safety, introduces the threat of galvanic corrosion as one is then connected to all the other boats in the marina and this provides a path for the current (which causes the corrosion) to flow. There are gizmos that one can buy to inhibit the current flow which causes this and you might like to take a look at
http://www.performanceleisure.co.uk/products/group/?c=Accessories&sc=Galvanic+Isolators
They have some fairly reasonably priced units (starting at £99) which might be worth considering. For myself, I'm not going to fit one of these at the present time as I have no intention of leaving the shore hookup plugged in while I'm not there.
Let me know how you get on.
Regards, Stan |
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Steve T
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2011 : 21:32:52
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I'll keep you informed Stan.
Like I say - marine gas and electrics are not my thing - just trying to get the right advice to get something that works well without costing an absolute fortune.
I suspect we all spend more than we should on our craft, and it is very easy to get carried away trying to specify a 23 foot cruiser up to 60 foot gin-palace level.
Once I get the final prices I will try to take a photo history of the works to post here.
Steve |
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Stan the Man
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2011 : 23:45:48
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Steve
Exactly so! I'll look forward to seeing some pictures of your install which I'm sure will help me in carrying out my own. By the way, is your boat on any of the forums (fora?)
Regards, Stan |
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Steve T
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2011 : 16:19:33
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Hi Stan
On Register 4 "Angel Chariot".
Cheers
Steve |
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Stan the Man
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2011 : 08:37:44
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Steve
Very nice she looks too - more pictures please.
My own Propex was delivered Friday and, like yourself, it was as if Christmas had come, as indeed it had. The heater looks a very impressive and well made piece of kit but I was rather less impressed with the wiring - the control loom could probably run round the boat a couple of times while the mains lead is barely 12 inches long! As the unit has a "not to be opened" type sticker I'll just have to extend that mains lead by a couple of feet to reach the fused spur socket.
Having received my goodies I found that none of my limited selection of holesaws would be large enough and good ol' Screwfix do not do a 95mm size for the vents. Fortunately, we have some good toolshops where I live so one quick trip later and I was fully equipped to butcher the woodwork.
My gammy leg (boat related, don't ask) has somewhat curtailed progress recently as have the visits of various relatives all of whom seem unwilling to spend their holidays helping me on the boat, but I hope to restart midweek.
I have been ruminating as to the best way to fit the control loom between the heater and the thermostat. I want to fit the latter at the forward end of the galley and "Hunky 'B'" has a formica-covered filler panel from the top of the work surface up to the underside of the gunwales. Behind this there is a good two to three inch void which extends the whole length of the work surface and is accessible from the inside of the cupboards. Current thought is to fit two rigid 20mm conduits from one end of the void to the other - one to carry the control loom (plus a couple of 12 volt cables), the other for a 240 volt feed to a switched outlet. I can then cut a hole in the filler panel and mount the thermostat as planned. The big problem is that gigantic length of control cable - the Molex connectors will not fit down the conduit. Much as I'd rather not have to do this, I plan to cut the cable and shorten it to the correct length, reconnecting the two halfs using a chocolate block mounted in a pattress box inside the forward cupboard.
I'm really looking forward to getting everything up and working and I'm sure you are too. Whilst neither the admiral nor I object to boating in low temperatures within reason (it is the wind and rain we really have a problem with), it will be glorious to be able to unfreeze from time to time at the press of a button.
Happy new year to you.
Regards, Stan |
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df
United Kingdom
5994 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2011 : 10:37:55
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With most connectors you can pick the terminals out of the plastic block and refit afterwards.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
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Stan the Man
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2011 : 10:56:42
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df
I've successfully removed the terminals on many Molex plugs but this one has me beat! Also, I'm not sure whether the terminals on these connectors are the standard type. This might mean a problem in replacing them once I've shortened the cable. Any information on this would be most welcome
Regards, Stan Wwen |
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Stan the Man
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2012 : 07:06:58
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We are nearly warm!
Mains hookup now installed and fitted with plug sockets in front and rear cabins and fused outlet inside "wardrobe" ready for Propex mains lead. Only outstanding job here is to fasten the earth cable from the consumer unit to the battery -ve terminal.
New low voltage circuit for Propex installed and connected and Thermostat mounted at bow end of galley worktop. In the end I cut multi-core cables at the heater end, fed them through the conduit, and reconnected them in a pattress box next to the heater - checked continuity of every core after fitting so fingers crossed.
Floor level vents fitted (the holes took only five minutes apiece with the correct holesaw) and the flexible hot air trunking fitted between the heater and the two outlets (Y-connector is located in cockpit hold). I intend to provide the air to the heater inlet through a brass grill on the wardrobe front rather than use the plastic grill supplied as part of the kit. This will get rid of a naff piece of varnished plywood which covers up a redundant hole where a radio was once fitted.
While "on the jazz" and with the helm console moulding removed (to install the 240 volt circuits) I also replaced the low voltage circuits and those for the radio and fan with the correct cable - anyone in the market for 6 miles of bellwire?
Will be up at the boat today to watch Graham, the gas engineer, performing his miracles and connecting the heater up. He is also going to be rerouting the hot water gas supply to replace a poorly installed and located T-joint under the cockpit floor.
With a little luck, we should then be OK to consider a short pootle at the weekend despite the forecast 6 degrees. Does anyone use heated gloves I wonder? |
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Steve T
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2012 : 13:39:21
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Stan
Pictures please.
I had to work all over Christmas and New Year so haven't moved my install on yet.
Away next weekend too so it will be another 2 weeks before we get down to the boat to see where we are up to with the quotes.
Cheers
Steve |
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Steve T
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 17:42:13
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Stan
I now have some sort of proposed specification for the Propex.
I think I am going to add another battery, just for the leisure side and an RCD and twin MCB's to suit.
I have sourced a nice 50W solar panel and regulator, so that is going on too.
Also adding an intelligent charger while everyone has their tools out, so a full job instead of a cheaper halfway-house one that I was sorely tempted to do to save a few quid.
Guess I am still a week or so away from starting, as I am away all next weekend, but if I can get down there while it is all going on I will post up some piccies.
Hopefully that means some warm weekends away in February.
Lets see. |
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Stan the Man
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 18:21:14
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Steve T
Well, we didn't get out on Sunday (too damn cold) but the Propex is in and working! Graham Freeman did his Origami wonders with the copper pipe and commissioned the system last week. I've tried the heater on both propane and via the new 240 volt shore hookup and it is pretty impressive. I do need to call Propex as the system errors on eletric after a while although simply turning it off and on again sorts out the problem.
Am planning to be up on the boat tomorrow to start fitting in the woodwork for the shelf (made) and back panels (twinkle in the captain's eye). I'll take a few piccies and post these on Flickr.
Best of luck with your own install.
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Steve T
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 19:08:26
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Hi Stan
Glad you are impressed with the performance - I don't want to go through all this for a breath of tepid breeze
Look forward to seeing the piccies.
Enjoy.
Steve |
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Topic |
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Experience fitting a Propex?
