| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| DavidAshton |
Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 18:11:44
Ok so I'm asking you guys how long you'd think it'd take for the following jobs on a Norman 20, Ive had the work done and the bill is shocking on hours, so being what you guys think before I go back to them and complain.
The drive coupling was badly damaged and needed replacing - on the invoice they list it as replacing with new coupling kit (And if you guys know how much the coupling kit is too?
Also - to replace a worn Dog Clutch and fork, then flush out old emulsified gear oil.
Theres a few other bits they did but i'd be interested to see how many hours you guys would estimate on the above - and how much a drive coupling kit is?
Thanks in advance - I think they re taking the pi$$ so want opinions!
David |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cliveshep |
Posted - 11 Dec 2016 : 00:57:17
Some Enfields have a stainless steel split pin holding on a nylon cone that when removed exposes a pin, rather like a sheer pin on outboards, that pins the prop to the shaft. Push that out and the prop pulls off.
For repairs you might want to 'phone Streamlined Propeller Repairs, Cavendish Mews, Aldershot GU11 3EH, UK. Their phone no is: +44 1252 316412
They'll tell you how much to fettle your prop - they make brilliant repairs, or alternatively how much for a replacement. They were marketting a replacment prop that had a removeable centre boss system, that made prop repair or replacement in the future much cheaper, in addition the replacement was cheap. Up until a couple of years ago I used them all the time - then I retired to here!
If you don't want to drive down during the week you could always send it by a parcel delivery service. After all, it's winter so you probably won't be going anywhere anytime soon!
Finally living the dream!
|
| df |
Posted - 10 Dec 2016 : 19:10:47
This was an enfield if I remember rightly, if you can't use the winding option to raise the outdrive sideways you can usually hook a rope around it and lift straight up(easier if you reach into the water and manually flip the reversing catch behind the upright pivot), it will probably still be just below water level but hey it's not that cold yet, rope it backwards on a slip with outdrive lifted, knock tab washer back and unscrew the conical nut (normal RH thread) and slide the prop off the splined shaft, the size should be on the hub or sometimes stamped on a blade.
Go to bob knowles plant and buy another, they were £160 with the vat but may have gone up since.
You can get away with a fair bit of re-dressing or 'dendro percussive maintenence' (put it on a lump of wood and t wat it back to shape with a hammer) but that can cause small cracks in the edges but not a big problem at river speeds, a good bloke with a tig welder can do some good repairs as long as you keep the hub cool as it has a rubber bush in it.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
 Visit leomagill.co.uk |
| DavidAshton |
Posted - 10 Dec 2016 : 16:42:51
Ok time for another random question.
Turns out my propellor is a bit beaten up, when the boat was being repaired the mechanic did remove it and take pictures but didn't tell me so now, after eventually seeing the photos I see I could do with a new one.
I asked him what size was it so I can source a new one myself, and as helpful as ever he said he didn't know but it should be marked?...
Is there a way I can find this out, without getting the boat out of the water? Obviously I want to look for one myself and possibly shop around to get it fitted without being tied to this boatyard to do it |
| IanM |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 08:30:54
It was actually the least impressive engine death ever. It just stopped suddenly. No bangs, no crunches, no flames, nothing, not even a shudder. One moment we were chugging along through the tunnel like we'd done many time before, then we weren't. One of the many loose lumps of steel had argued with the flywheel ring gear and won. I guess that sudden stop is what did for the crank shaft.
Spare a thought for Jo, who was at the front of the boat when it happened and was probably already a bit worried about the sudden silence when I accidentally plunged her into total darkness by turning off the headlight whilst fumbling around the dashboard. There was a bit of excitement when the boat behind us arrived but various folks helped us through the tunnel and locks. Then it was simply a case of handing over a seemingly infinite quantity of tenners until we had a different slightly shonky engine fitted and working.
As David at the top of this thread has discovered, boat repair costs are in a different league compared with anything else you encounter.
|
| df |
Posted - 18 Nov 2016 : 08:10:59
I've always wondered if a narrowboat in a tunnel could outrun a mini-flare......
You up for a challenge Ian?
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
| cliveshep |
Posted - 18 Nov 2016 : 01:33:09
..........and if you could manage a small explosion and fire in the tunnel for extra effect Trevor would be REALLY happy especially if you posted pics or i-phone videos of the event.
Making the 10.00 o'clock news would really make his day!
Finally living the dream!
|
| trevork |
Posted - 16 Nov 2016 : 00:22:42
Well, if you had to break down and have an engine failure then that is the most spectacular way to do it Ian! Why bore the world with a straightforward engine seize up?? Make a song and dance of it and throw a few lumps of iron around!
Tumultuous applause should follow!
Just got back from the pub by the way! |
| IanM |
Posted - 15 Nov 2016 : 17:54:51
Unless it's a very special Norman to convert between inboard and outboard it will almost always be cheaper to sell the boat and buy another one. Sad but true.
And Trevor, you'll be amused to know that we did manage to kill a BMC 1.5D. Some muppet had bodged the coupling between flywheel and gearbox which managed to vibrate itself apart halfway through Braunston tunnel. Lots of chunky metal bits bouncing around in there. Everything was chipped, bent or dented and the crankshaft was not turning properly, assumed bent. The engine guy just kept looking at me and shaking his head. Some of the home-made "spacers" looked suspiciously like they just taken a random bit of steel bar and drilled a shonky, not-quite-central hole in it. My advice would be never break down in a tunnel...
|
| df |
Posted - 15 Nov 2016 : 15:36:59
Going from scratch I would completely agree with the outboard approach but if you already have an inboard/outdrive setup there is the added costs of filling the outdrive hole and building an outboard well and then having to re-fit the cockpit to suit the new setup, as David had someone else do the work to fix his problems I'm guessing he would have done the same to get an outboard fitted, that is even more hours work on top of the cost of the engine.
Boating is so much cheaper if you can do the work yourself.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
| trevork |
Posted - 15 Nov 2016 : 13:39:12
Plenty of much older BMC's still happily chugging away. Basic diesels are mostly bullet proof and will live on! |
| Knighty |
Posted - 15 Nov 2016 : 12:56:57
It's a Ford 4 pot, maybe a 105e engine David mentioned. |
| philihun |
Posted - 14 Nov 2016 : 19:49:41
I'm certainly not going to cross swords with the lads that know in boards inside out, but why spend about 2k repairing a tired old set up from the dark ages. For that money you could get a 15 -20 hp Honda outboard still with some guarantee on it for about 1.5k. That leaves £500 for the tank and fuel line and fitting on the transom etc. They weigh about 56 kg which means you can take them home if they need fixing, which is very rare on modern 4 strokes, (Honda Yamaha Mercury). Jap not Chinese. I carry 10 gallons which gives me 120 miles and a bit in reserve. Google the nearest Garage on your travels and you will never run out of fuel. Mines a Honda 15 1998 and it does the ouze and trent when most of the the Coffins aren't able to stem a 6 knot tide. I am talking Normans Vikings etc not bigger craft where diesel is a must.
pr hunt |
| df |
Posted - 14 Nov 2016 : 15:38:04
Which drive coupling was it that needed replacing? Was it a flexible coupling between engine and outdrive or the splined shaft that bolts to the engine flywheel? I know both are pretty pricey as I did price them up once (can't remember figures)and I think the only splined shaft that goes on without machineing work is for perkins engine, I know the dog clutch isn't cheap too, I hope they replaced both sliding dog and beveled gear as if one is slipping over the other part will be worn out too, once the edges get rounded over they push themselves out of mesh under power.
What engine is it you have?
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
| cliveshep |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 11:53:03
I'm guessing the labour bill alone is around £850, but consider that if you book a yard lift with a crane and factoring in the insurance you could be looking at £250 - £300 for that alone - in and out. Add the repair time, removing an engine involves two men plus a crane and driver, and putting it back again, stripping a manky old Enfield - that has to be getting on for 40 years old - with stainless bolts inevitable seized in the aluminium castings needing very careful work to get them out - I'd say something around £850 and up for labour would be about right.
Removing a stern-drive, stripping out on the bench, re-building lower end etc and ensuring it won't fill up with water when the boat is re-floated is a job requiring skill and care or the whole excercise would be a waste of time and you would not be happy.
Boats are extremely labour intensive, modern tools, materials and techniques have hardly changed that, so it follows that the less you let a yard do the better off you'd be.
Finally living the dream!
|
| Knighty |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 10:27:45
Shame they didn't give you an estimate or an idea of costs as work was progressing as outdrive repairs can be very expensive especially at marina prices.
Also see you had a recent service with prior issues selecting gear shame they didn't advise you on possible future repairs. Also the recent work says flush out emulsified oil, wasn't the oil changed on the service you had done costing £500 ?
Pity you didn't join here before buying as I previously owned a 20 and would have advised going for an outboard motor boat. Nothing wrong with inboards, I have one now but shaft drive but on a 20 a small 10-15hp is fine on inland rivers. |
