| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Landor |
Posted - 23 Mar 2016 : 07:04:55
Hi everyone,
I've had a Norman 20 since the summer and up until now i have not had time to do the restoration work.
The Hull although sound and watertight is in a sorry state with chips and gashes right through the gelcoat in several places. the wood panels on the side of the hull are completely rotten too.
My questions are:
1) Is it difficult to replace the gelcoat and if so what is the best method?
2) Can anyone recommend the best type of orbital sander to use?
3) i'll try post some pics tonight
4) any tips or advice welcome
Cheers |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Landor |
Posted - 08 Apr 2016 : 07:28:42
I just love the bottom of the bottle of 'Mr Muscle' on show. "Aint that the truth".
I'm finding I have muscles I never knew existed
quote:
Originally posted by fitvit
Do they all have holding tanks? I don't think this one did, but I may be wrong. I just ripped out everything without giving what I was ripping out too much of an inspection. (still slightly traumatised) Or could there still be a holding tank lurking in there somewhere. (for the love of god please say no)
I'm assuming that both these pipes just go straight down and out - I'm hoping that I just now need to remove them and patch the holes? please tell me its going to be that easy . . . lol
ford
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| cliveshep |
Posted - 08 Apr 2016 : 02:18:36
quote:
Originally posted by Landor
This is inside the hull. The dark bits at the bottom are bits of dirt. It looks OK to me however the outside as you suggest is beyond crap so I'm going to take it back and do like you say regarding reducing the patch sizes etc and finishing it with a clear resin mix.
|Could I put the antifoul primer straight on it (with it keyed) or should I puth the 2 pack on first then key it and then put the antifoul primer on, then the antifoul?
cheers
[/ ]
I stand by my original comments - clean off inside and out and make a proper repair, they haven't cleaned the inside before glassing over it so the bond miight look good but it will shear away if there is another impact. Do it properly huh?
You don't need a paddle mixer for such a small area and a roller won't get in to the inside, just stipple with a brush until it is properly wetted in. If as I told you you use bi-directional weave cloth and not CSM (chopped strand mat)there are 3 benefits so I'll list them to explain why I reccommended it.
1. your brush won't pick up fibres like a Santa's beard and make a mess everywhere
2. BD cloth "wets in" much easier than CSM
3. BD cloth "drapes" around tight curves easily where CSM tends to spring off.
I don't get commission on sales from anyone Deano - in fact I'm 8000 miles away from you these days.
Finally living the dream!
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| cliveshep |
Posted - 08 Apr 2016 : 02:05:24
Fitvit - sorry - I missed your post and picture before..............
That was NOT a pump-out toilet but a bog-standard sea toilet, suck up water from the sea, pump through the bowl and out back to sea.
You will not have a holding tank and with both inlet and outlet side-by-side a wise choice to get rid of it anyway or understand a whole new meaning to the word "recycle". Ok underway but not if stationary in a harbour (where you shouldn't use it anyway haha).
Just fill the holes like you were advised.
Finally living the dream!
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| fitvit |
Posted - 07 Apr 2016 : 21:40:47
Do they all have holding tanks? I don't think this one did, but I may be wrong. I just ripped out everything without giving what I was ripping out too much of an inspection. (still slightly traumatised) Or could there still be a holding tank lurking in there somewhere. (for the love of god please say no)
I'm assuming that both these pipes just go straight down and out - I'm hoping that I just now need to remove them and patch the holes? please tell me its going to be that easy . . . lol
ford |
| cliveshep |
Posted - 07 Apr 2016 : 12:14:18
quote:
Originally posted by fitvit
CLIVESHEP!!
Sorry for jumping on this post Landor, but can i just ask cliveshep (uber guru) a question following the same vein as yours.
I've just ripped out the pump out toilet and am left with the 2 pipes disappearing through the floor. I'm moving the toilet cubicle and will be using a porta potti so could do with getting rid of the pipes. The boat is coming out of the water so would I just unscrew the hoses and repair hole as you've advised Landons to?
ford
One pipe goes to your holding tank - make sure that is empty but you've still got a smelly job on yout hands. I assume you will remove the holding tank and also the pump-out deck fitting?
The other pipe goes to a sea-cock somewhere - best if you don't want to use that connection for a handy deck-wash pump to seal it off.
For both - clean the area and feather off the outside with a grinder and flap-disc, inside ditto taking it back at least 75mm all round on the inside, you do not need to do more than taper the existing edges at about 30 degrees outside as it is a non-structural repair.
I have to say that with the better part of 50 years boat-building behind me repairing polyester boats with polyester resin is cheapest and best so long as there is plenty of lap on well roughened existing.
I used to burn off and scrape surfaces with a shave-hook and blowlamp to remove surface resin and expose existing fibres - the resulting bond with new work almost as good as original lay-up. Of course 'Elf'n'Safety stuck in noses and insurers naturally followed suit so the practice was discontinued. To be fair the resin would catch fire as you scraped it off and careful heat-control coupled with stamping on the little fires was the order of the day.
Latterly I used an electric paint-stripping hot-air gun to soften the resin so I could scrape it off, care still needed as they can cause fires and the resin is very combustible and all you want to achieve is to soften it and scrape it back and not burn down the sheds and entire boat-yard and half the street with it.
Now all the pundits can go "tut tut" but that is me with 50 odd years of experience. For most of you unless you are doing highly strength-critical structures, like engine bearer retro-fits, I'd stick with the flap-disc.
Finally living the dream!
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| Deano |
Posted - 07 Apr 2016 : 10:28:25
Don't forget to feather the edges to create a wedge shape. Aggressively sand or grind back any surface you want the polyester resin to stick to. It does not naturally bond well to old resin.
Watch this video... he has a lot of useful tips. Tape a backing pad on the outside and start with small circles, progressively getting larger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzOMlMzrLoE
Consider using epoxy rather than polyester, it sticks better and is easier to work with but costs more. It also has more uses around the boat for filling and glueing.
Dean - Boating on the Great Ouse.
Freeman 32 "Liberty"
See the photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/54758027@N00/ |
| fitvit |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 23:25:17
CLIVESHEP!!
Sorry for jumping on this post Landor, but can i just ask cliveshep (uber guru) a question following the same vein as yours.
I've just ripped out the pump out toilet and am left with the 2 pipes disappearing through the floor. I'm moving the toilet cubicle and will be using a porta potti so could do with getting rid of the pipes. The boat is coming out of the water so would I just unscrew the hoses and repair hole as you've advised Landons to?
ford |
| Landor |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 23:13:26
I've just ordered some sheets and resin from east coast fibreglass.
I live in East Yorkshire now but the fibreglass company is just a few miles up the road from where I used to live in Sunderland, Typical lol. |
| Landor |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 23:11:36
yes will do DF and yes it's about the same size on both sides of the bow.
I need to put a new bow eye on as well so I will do this when I do the patch although I need to get and shape a wooden block for the bow eye to fix to on the inside. |
| IanM |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 22:59:37
Does the patch extend to the other side of the vee?
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| df |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 22:32:19
I'd give the inside a good rough up and overlay a good few layers of matting just to make sure, going a good bit bigger than the original patch.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
| Landor |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 22:29:17
Cheers Deano,
There was a sandbag over it that has soaked up moisture so that may be the guilty party.
I'm going to take down the outside of the repair and might do the same on the inside and add some matting inside and out and cover with clear resin and a coat or 2 of decent paint.
Clive took the time to put a shopping list together for me and think I'll get the goodies ordered and crack on with it when they arrive. The repair may hold but I'd rather be sure and get through the upcoming season then I'll spend a lot more time over winter getting her in shape. |
| Deano |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 20:57:06
You need something waterproof over the repair.... strangely GRP isn't..... the creamy white is evidence of water absorption.
Epoxy would be better (but more expensive) than polyester resin. But a quick coat of epoxy or gel shield would do. As would a good quality paint I guess.
Dean - Boating on the Great Ouse.
Freeman 32 "Liberty"
See the photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/54758027@N00/ |
| Landor |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 20:33:04
This is inside the hull. The dark bits at the bottom are bits of dirt. It looks OK to me however the outside as you suggest is beyond crap so I'm going to take it back and do like you say regarding reducing the patch sizes etc and finishing it with a clear resin mix.
|Could I put the antifoul primer straight on it (with it keyed) or should I puth the 2 pack on first then key it and then put the antifoul primer on, then the antifoul?
cheers
[/] |
| df |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 18:55:38
I'm on commission as well so buy a paddle roller while you are at it and a handy dispenser/measurer bottle for the catalyst.
The paddle roller helps massively with getting matting to lock in together and get the air bubbles out of the layup as you go and makes for a much better layup, a few spare pre-measured mixing cups and a box of the cheap wooden spatulas help too, if you can get a spare body to mix and tidy up the job gets a whole lot easier as you can work for the full potlife of the resin.
NBAS--The communal colostomy bag of the boating community.
Visit leomagill.co.uk |
